Mr. Joe Lewins:

On the on-course bookmakers, there are probably 34 or 35 at the moment, but it is endemic even in horseracing at the moment. Bookmakers are not getting any younger. If one looks at the bookmakers at the track, they would probably be there for ten, 20 or 30 years. Trying to get new guys in is very difficult and it is also part of the split - I call it upstairs-downstairs. The downstairs is the traditional greyhound man - the owners and trainers. They really are with the bookmakers. Upstairs are those with corporate groups or on a night out etc. They bet with the Tote. They are there for a good night out and they are going to bet with the Tote.

In essence there are two tracks that are working very well in terms of 50:50 with the Tote. Shelbourne Park would be stronger from the bookmaker point of view. Kilkenny would be very strong with bookmakers as opposed to the Tote.

Attracting new bookmakers in is very difficult, but one of the things we have seen is the new television trial we are doing at the moment with Turf TV. We are using bookmakers in the UK, and betting shops in the UK and Ireland. The bookmakers at those tracks which are offering very competitive odds, which is in line with the UK and Ireland, are seeing an upturn in turnover from the on-course traditional bookmaker. It would be very difficult to get traditional bookmakers and I do not see any growth in that area. As I said, the age profile of a traditional bookmaker must be late 50s or early 60s, similar to the UK. The UK has the same problem. One has 2.7 bookmakers per BAGS, Bookmakers Afternoon Greyhound Service, and they are struggling to get bookmakers. One needs three bookmakers at the track to form an SP for the UK. I do not know how one resolves that bit of it. One of the ways of resolving it, I suppose, is getting more people into tracks. Take Galway, Johnny Morris would have been a good bookmaker at Galway track. More people come downstairs. One gets that type of bookmaker back.