Mr. Robert Watt:

Hang on. We can all give examples but the data that we have, based on the Comptroller and Auditor General's assessment of this, suggest that between €40 million to €50 million of spend on procurement was outside of the competitive process and there was not a sufficiently good reason for it being outside thus. I may be mistaken but I believe that was the figure. The sum was small. I would contend - although the committee is entitled to disagree with me - that, in the overall context of the spend that we have on procurement, this is immaterial in an auditing sense. That said, I am not suggesting we should not be concerned it. I am suggesting that it is inevitable, with thousands of contracts every year across hundreds of bodies, that some contracts could be executed in a better and more efficient way. There is no company, organisation or system in either the public or private sector anywhere in the world that gets everything 100% right all of the time.

I understand the concerns of the Chairman. In terms of his question as to what we do, we work with Departments and remind them of their obligations all the time. Mr. Quinn's team works with the procurers in the various agencies to explain what we want. We are moving from a situation where this was not as professionally focused as a function in the service as we would like and we are trying to fully professionalise it. Mr. Quinn's office has been in place for just under three years. The process takes time but we are very happy with the progress we are making. That said, we are not content in the face of examples of non-compliance. I am not disagreeing with the Chairman. We need to figure out how we can do better across this vast system and determine whether there are sanctions or other mechanisms that can be put in place to improve the situation further. We are striving all the time to ensure that Departments understand their obligations and are working with them in that regard. Some of the reasons given for non-compliance, such as, for example, an absence of specialist staff, are not acceptable. That is not an adequate reason because specialist staff are available. That is not a good enough reason for not doing things properly. If Departments do not-----