Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

We need to understand what lies behind this. The racing industry is a hugely valuable one. Racetracks run important events. There needs to be a conversation between the harness sector and horse racing sector so that each understands that tracks can be used without damage being caused to the turf or the surface. I have asked Horse Racing Ireland to have that conversation with the harness sector. Access to the Dundalk track has been provided since I made that request. I think that things are changing for the better - and quite quickly - for the harness race sector. We have never had a race meet at a track like Dundalk. It happened this year. I want to encourage that more and I will do so. It would be unfair for me to force HRI to allocate funds to the harness sector when there are lots of competing demands in the sports and racing sectors for available resources. Members should by all means invite Horse Racing Ireland and Horse Sport Ireland to appear before the committee to discuss funding and how we support and regulate the harness racing sector. I will be very supportive of that, as will my Department.

It is an issue that should not hold up the legislation, on foot of which expenditure of millions of euro is planned. It needs to be spent if we are to achieve a series of results in the horse racing industry. People can make their own decisions on that.

This has nothing to do with elitism. I am happy to have this conversation. I have had it and we want more interaction between Horse Sport Ireland, Horse Racing Ireland and the Irish Harness Racing Association. I am not happy to see races take place on public roads. There have been accidents on public roads and many associated welfare issues have arisen. We need a proper, regulated, controlled sector. To be fair, that is what the Irish Harness Racing Association wants to create. We will help it to do that. This matter may be linked to the issue in hand but it should not hold up the vote today. I appeal to members not to delay it.

On elitism, I am not quite sure what people are suggesting. To suggest we have some kind of elitist policy on racing in Ireland would be very unfair. If one asks the small trainers what they want to be prioritised through funding, they all say they want more prize money. That is what has been provided in recent years. If one asks dog breeders and trainers what they want, the vast majority say they want more prize money. They have said this to me. Everybody dreams of winning the big prize. In point-to-point races, flat racing or jump racing, we need good facilities and decent prize money. We need a supportive budget and proper transparency in terms of how money is spent and raised, including, for example, through the foal levy.

I take Deputy Penrose's point on that levy. There is an ongoing debate on how it should be raised. I am happy to discuss it with the Deputy. The means of raising the revenue will not be prescribed in the legislation. We are trying to have a fair foal levy that is easy to implement. We want a reasonable chunk of money coming in so we can fund the equine centre. I have allocated more money for the centre next year because it needs more money. This allocation is not from the foal levy revenue. I made it very clear to Horse Racing Ireland that I want to see more prioritisation of the equine centre. The centre is doing a phenomenal job but it is in a facility that is like a 1980s primary school. There is technology in the corridors of a very old building. The researchers are doing a really good job there. We need to support them and upgrade the facilities. We are going to do so. Next door, there is a fantastic facility that is being funded by the private sector through voluntary funds. The equine centre has a really important role to play. Some of its money needs to come from a foal levy. We need to have a fair way of allocating the money. Many people have suggested the levy should be raised based on the value of the foal at a later stage. However, many foals are not sold so that would not be possible. This conversation is not as simple as some people might believe. I will happily have the conversation and we will talk to Horse Racing Ireland about it.

For the first time, we will have stable staff recommended for the board of Horse Racing Ireland, yet people are suggesting we are somehow elitist. We are trying to change racing in Ireland to ensure everybody has a say, whether they are associated with small racecourses as opposed to big ones or whether they are stable staff by comparison with the most wealthy horse owners in the country. All will be in the same board of Horse Racing Ireland.

Nobody is changing anything in terms of how point-to-point meetings operate. The local hunt clubs and the National Hunt committee will decide where and when they should be held. Well over €1 million of public money is going towards point-to-point racing. It is horse racing and it comes under the Bill. The only change we are making is that when registering a hunter, one must go through a central registry office operated by Horse Racing Ireland. The money that would have gone to the Turf Club or the Irish National Hunt committee automatically goes back to it. We are trying to create a central portal through which money comes in and out so we will have a clear understanding of what is being spent and raised. That is not unreasonable in these times given the need for transparency.

On the points Deputy Ferris has been making on the greyhound industry, I am impatient in my desire for reform. Indecon points to a series of changes that need to take place. That process of change is well under way. The Minister of State, Deputy Hayes, was here recently, for four or five hours, to discuss the detail on the greyhound industry, which I believe he understands very well. He is involved in it and knows many people involved. We are changing the greyhound sector in terms of board appointments and financing. There are some debt problems associated with Bord na gCon of which, I believe, people are aware. Some difficult decisions have to be taken on this to try to get Bord na gCon and the racing industry on a stable platform again. We want to see an increase in prize money. If one does not increase prize money in the greyhound industry, there will be no excitement about and growth in the breeding and owning of dogs. Therefore, we have signalled to Bord na gCon that a consequence of the increased funding this year should be an increase in prize money to try to bring positivity back to the sector. There has been much division within the greyhound sector and we are trying to heal that and move forward while learning lessons.

I have answered most of the questions on the Irish Harness Racing Association and Dundalk. On the questions raised by Deputy Ó Cuív on betting tax, we should increase betting tax. I have argued that point. To be fair to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, he told me we should concentrate on getting the structure right first so we can actually start generating a revenue stream from online betting. Many other countries have really struggled with this. This was a much more difficult thing to do than some believe. Getting online betting platforms and exchanges that are international to agree to giving to the State 1% of their turnover from bets coming from Ireland and managing that required considerable co-operation with the industry. The Minister for Finance was very sensible in saying we should get the structure working first and only when it is working - it is only this year that it is working for the first time - should we consider the rates. That is the point we are now at. If I am lucky enough to be the Minister with responsibility for this area next year, I will make no apologies for advocating an increase in the rate. I do not believe there should be a dramatic jump because the industry needs to adjust but I would like to see the betting levies increased for both online and offline bookmakers. I do not want to start giving exact figures on that but those who know my views on this area know the kinds of figures I would like to see.

Let me respond to the question on how many staff in my Department work in the equine industry. If I were asked the same question on beef or dairy farming, I would probably give the same answer. We have expertise in the Department that applies across multiple sectors whether it is a question of breeding programmes, genomics, welfare or various schemes. There is knowledge in different areas and it applies to different sectors at different times. For example, we have done a huge amount of work on horse welfare over recent years. It is the welfare element of our Department that has been working on that but it also works on cattle, sheep and dogs in terms of the welfare legislation. This means that owners of horses now have to have their animals microchipped and must have passports for them. They must have an equine-registered premises or they are breaking the law and their animals can be seized. I find it difficult to give the Deputy an exact answer to the question, although it is perfectly reasonable because the equine industry is a big priority area. As it happens, the person in the Department in charge of advising me on the thoroughbred sector and horses is also in charge of beef and dairy advice at senior Assistant Secretary level. I am sure he has been before the committee on a number of occasions.

On the agricultural classification of horses, the breeding of horses is deemed agriculture. One can use breeding horses to increase one's stocking rate to qualify for certain schemes. If one has a horse that is not being used for breeding, it may not be used for this purpose. That is the distinction.

I know how strongly people feel about harness racing. As I want to be helpful, I will certainly ask HRI to be helpful and come before the committee to talk about it. However, I also think the committee should hear from Horse Sport Ireland which is an affiliate of Horse Racing Ireland. When it hears about the funding demands of Horse Sport Ireland, it might realise there are a lot of competing demands for funding in the equine sector. It is not simply about racing which is to receive nearly €60 million next year in the context of the thoroughbred sector; harness racing should also receive a slice of the funding. The sports horse sector is worth €800 million and involves about 200,000 people when one takes account of all of the volunteers involved. Horse Sport Ireland is also asking for money and a slice of the pie.