John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

That is another gap. The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform should be far more proactive when it comes to one of the bigger costs to the State, namely, legal costs. Not only is there a legal cost, there is a human cost. There have been many cases where the State has wronged an individual. While that might be proven at the end of the day, the fact is a life or a family has been destroyed in the process. Therefore, the two gaps identified need to be addressed not only by whoever here this morning has responsibility in this area but by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. Someone needs to get a handle on the cost being incurred by institutions of the State, with no reference to its ability to win a case or to get the best value for money for the taxpayer. I say that arising from the experiences of the committee in relation to money spent that did not achieve anything while at the same time individual lives were damaged, which leaves people cynical about the State apparatus and how it is operated.