Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I understand that. Again, the Department has made the point that it is the trustees who decide on closing down a defined benefit scheme, not the sponsor. In the real world, however, they do so at the behest of the employer or the company.

I am not suggesting we should have a rule whereby the employer has to come up to 90% of funding if that is going to cause job losses, force the company to close down or restrict its activities. There is no statutory obligation on employers to provide defined benefit pension schemes. Nevertheless, when they do set them up, certain consequences follow. Some years ago in the UK, a rule was introduced that a solvent employer, one who could well afford it, had to come up with 90% of the pension fund before they could close it down. That was eventually accepted in the UK. It has not caused, to my knowledge, any major industrial outfall, job losses or collapses because it is confined to those who can well afford to have the schemes at 90% paid up if they want to close them down.

I will not press the amendments but I am putting the Minister of State on notice that I will resubmit them for Report Stage.