Jillian van Turnhout (Independent) | Oireachtas source

To pick up on Deputy McLellan's last point, it has been great to get the representatives' presentations and they show us the complexity and importance of the issues with which we are dealing in this Bill. I thank each of the representatives for their presentations. We will not cover each of the points raised but that does not mean the committee is not considering them. We will not cover some of them because we agree with them and that will be in the report and we will deal with that.

I co-sponsored a Bill with Senator Power. In my work in the area of children's rights, which is where I have come from to this issue, there is the issue of the right to identity and the importance of that right. That certainly frames my thoughts on the area and how we ensure the right to identity of every individual of this State or those who have gone to other countries who are equally entitled to that right.

When the Adoption Authority of Ireland was before the committee, Professor Geoffrey Shannon said we cannot rewrite the past, but equally we cannot be paralysed by the past. That is what I will bear in mind in the context of the Bill, that we must find a way that we are not also paralysed by our past, as all too often we have been. For me, change is incremental. The Bill has come further. I hear what people are saying about how the Bill needs to go further. There may be pieces of it we can look at but my sense is that in the balancing of rights, change is incremental. I just want to be honest. I will try to do what I can to try to get the Bill progressed as much as possible because I am very conscious of people who are getting older and if we wait to get the perfect model, there may be nobody around to see it and I do not want that. I just want to be honest with people.

Some questions have been raised with us about counselling and who should provide it. We could get into discussions about the degrees of counselling. I have a concern about it being a social worker given some people's experience with social work services. I say that with no disrespect to current social work services. The agencies in this regard have been raised as an issue by several witnesses. We must examine the option and ensure people are entitled to have a choice once there is a certain standard or level, but we must be open and examine the issue.

Illegal adoption concerns me. We must be very broad and open in terms of how we understand the position with records. There will not be one piece of paper or one file for every child transferred. It may involve a nurse's register, as we have seen, and there may be different types of documents. My understanding is that files are being transferred from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade as part of this measure. I understand we will deal with some of that, but a scoping exercise could point to where documents might exist if organisations wish to come back to us and say we need to look at certain records. However, it is my understanding that many records are being transferred.

I agree with what was said about compelling reasons. I have heard that we need to have the provision in the Bill to ensure balance and to ensure it is constitutional. Nobody has yet been able to give us an example of a compelling reason that I am satisfied with. In fact, I was alarmed by one of the compelling reasons we were given by the Child and Family Agency because it was a case of distress and while I do not want to diminish what is involved, it was a case of distress and not a compelling reason. We very much have to separate the information and contact. One has a right to information and nobody wants to put anyone into distress, but that cannot be a compelling reason in terms of one's right to identity. There must be a process and the way that happens is important, but it does not mean one can say it is a compelling reason and therefore we will not provide it because we are where we are at the moment.

I heard what was said about fees and also the contact preference register. That had not come up before and we will ask why the register is not being transferred. I am grateful the point was raised with us.

In terms of the information and awareness campaign, I accept what was said about the lead-in time. I have asked if the committee could be presented with the information and awareness campaign in order that we could have a say in it when it is being devised. I would like to hear whether the witnesses have any advice for us.

Two issues were raised with which I concur but which are outside the scope of the Bill. I am in agreement on the step-parent adoption issue. I have dealt with too many cases. It is wrong that we have children being adopted today in a closed adoption system. We are talking about the past but we are also talking about the present and step-parent adoption is part of that.

On the issue raised by Treoir on birth certificates, that was an issue it raised with me and we tried to change the civil registration Bill. The fact we could not was one of the most depressing moments for me in the House. If a person is adopted, it is a fact. I said in the Seanad that I believe it is a case of the State colluding in falsifying documents. It is wrong that there is not even an asterisk on the certificate to identify it in some way. I get it, and I had not thought of it in the context of the Bill under discussion because it comes under the Department of Social Protection, but it is something for the committee to examine. The witnesses will all be allowed to make further comments.

It is important in terms of one's right to identity that a person would always know. I want to have a system whereby a person would always know he or she was adopted. This is part of learning the lessons from the past. We must deal with the past but we must also deal with the present in order that children would never be in a position where they do not know. They should have those rights. It is a fact that a person is adopted. We are making it into a stigma by taking the approach we are taking. I agree with the point.

I thank Mr. Redmond for what he said about the no-contact information. The way he has articulated it strikes a really good balance and shows us the complexities we are dealing with. I thank him for doing that.