Mr. Oliver Cussen:

Deputy McConalogue asked about the length of term and my sense now, subject to those legal cases, is that much can be achieved in three years. There is a good programme of work and if we can get that much done in three years, we would do a good job. Certainly the work will not be done in three years - far from it if there will be 10,000 students - but without sounding too precious, I view jobs like this as a stewardship and as a personal issue. One is given responsibility for a period, which in this case is three years, and we look to do the best we can with it. I mean this in the sense of progressing the project as much as possible and laying a solid foundation for the future for whoever is following.

I will come back to the question about "Back to the Future" because I really do not know the answer. With regard to Deputy Byrne's question, student accommodation on the site is a very important aspect and there has already been a very significant study done by a consultancy firm working with Grangegorman to examine the impact of students, the way they will integrate and benefit the area and potential problems that sometimes are not as welcome with students. Suffice it to say, there is much advance planning already going into the social and other impact of students, mainly positive but also with some of the negatives. The initial plan is there will be 650 students on site by approximately 2018 and after that subsequent blocks will be built, bringing the number to approximately 2,000. It would not come all at once and there would be a process of adjustment.

Employment opportunities are very important and it is vital to take the chance to get local people employed. The single biggest problem very often is getting a job, getting started and gaining experience. The process can go well after that once experience is gained, and this could be significant for a local area. Deputy Byrne commented on DEIS and other newer schools, referring to educational opportunities. I agree completely with the Deputy and without making any comment on the specifics of DEIS schools versus other schools, it is very bad for children's development if they get a sense that they are being stigmatised. This might be in them thinking in some ways that they are in a place that is not as good as where somebody else is. Very often children can rebel and not bother with the system because the idea is it is for so-called toffee-nosed fellows or girls somewhere else. That is a perception and I do not mean pupils are toffee-nosed in any school. I am very interested in the work being done by the labour and learning forum.

A huge educational institution is being established there now and we need to try to maximise the potential to get children and adults from that neighbourhood to take a different view of education. Not only should they be encouraged to take a different view but they should be given options and opportunities to avail of the benefits of it. In that way, we could build up confidence in the institution. If people remain outside of it, we will never build up confidence. We must get them involved in it. Some achievement leads to more achievement. It is critical that people get their foot on the rung of the ladder so that they can then make more progress, rather than continually feel they are excluded.

Deputy Maloney raised important points about the IT in Tallaght. That is outside of my remit. I am not in the Department of Education and Skills or involved in the process of bringing DIT and IT Tallaght and Blanchardstown together. I sympathise with the point made. When I was in the Department, creating the institutes of technology in their current form - I was involved with the VECs before that over many years - I fully understood the importance of local participation and identification with an institution. The fact it is on their doorstep leads people who would not have thought of doing so previously to attend the institution.

Deputy Byrne made the point that it is a long way to Belfield from the north side of the city. I go to England frequently, but I have a brother who, much to my shock, has never been outside of Limerick, even outside of his own small area in Limerick. It is amazing how we take it for granted people move around. One of my colleagues from Grangegorman said to me there are people who see moving across the river as a major issue, because they live very much within their community. More power to them, there is nothing wrong with that. The point about the importance of the locality therefore is significant in terms of local identification. This is balanced against the need to create higher education institutions that meet all the international standards and benefit students in that way. The institutions need to be a bit larger in the context of research and teaching quality and all of that. Hopefully, the amalgamation process will find a way to blend both so that we get local involvement and identification along with the benefits of a larger, central structure.

The Chairman made a point about workers. My previous involvement in that regard relates to when people were moving from VECs to ITs and the significant negotiation on that move. I do not think any jobs were lost and ultimately we achieved a successful, negotiated outcome to the changing conditions, moving from one employer to another, that is, moving from a VEC employer to a board of an institution of technology.