Mr. Oliver Cussen:

I would not have discussed the demographics in detail with the Department of Education and Skills, but when I was in that Department, clearly demographics were important, not just current demographics but the projected growth of the population over time. I am afraid that I cannot say much more at this time as I am not sufficiently familiar with it. What I know, and the Deputy is quite right to point out the need for consultation, is that it clearly requires more consultation and more explanation of how the project will work and why it is going a particular way in the context of the planning application.

I agree with Deputy Conaghan's views. To respond to Senator Craughwell, I will outline my background. I was in the then Department of Education and Science from 1990 to 1998 as an assistant secretary in charge of higher education, further education, the institutes of technology, which are part of higher education, the European Structural Fund, the European Regional Development Fund, the European Social Fund and the EU Presidency. I was also involved in two major White Papers, in 1992 when the then Minister was the late Seamus Brennan and a subsequent White Paper when Ms Niamh Bhreathnach was Minister. At that time I gained a great deal of understanding about the DIT and its deep links with Dublin city in particular. One of the jobs I had at that time, with the Minister, was to bring in the Dublin Institute of Technology Act 1992 which set out the objective of bringing the DIT colleges into one entity.

There was going to be a major problem because the institutions being brought together were different even though they nominally go under one name. What I did get from that was a deep understanding of how DIT existed in Dublin city. Without any disrespect to the universities and others, it was very anchored in the city. In particular, the apprenticeship programme had a huge impact over many years. It was one of those very pleasant occasions when men and women returned from the championships with many gold medals. They were really performing at the upper end. There was a particular anchoring there. It is a particular strength of DIT. I have always had the view that there has probably been too much desire for all educational institutions to become universities. I know there is a process in place with DIT and other institutes of technology which moved in that direction. It must go through a process, and it is excellent. However, the anchoring of an institution - the Deputy mentioned the Industrial Revolution and other things - is a very important feature of DIT as I understood it at the time. It involves bringing the institutions together in one location and maintaining that kind of environment, particularly when it is anchored in one place and interacts with the local city community in a modern context. It is very important not to lose that. I can return to this issue if the Deputy has any other questions.

Will I deal with Senator Craughwell's issue about who I am and what-----