Mr. Padraic Finnegan:

Returning to a point Deputy Ferris made about the certification bodies being like a money making machine, I agree with him entirely. We are one of the few schemes that are inspected every year by certification bodies. We have a document here that came from Frank Macken from the Department saying this was discussed at EU level, and the EU has no problem with going on to what they call a risk-based inspection arrangement.

This means farmers' properties would not have to be inspected every year. In my case - I have been involved in organics for 13 or 14 years - I have never had a black mark against me and would be seen as low risk. However, my property is inspected every year. Mr. Connelly and I went to Brussels in the spring and met some people from the European Commission who told us this issue had been raised there but that, oddly enough, Ireland had voted against it and wanted to retain the existing system. It would be interesting to know who voted against it in Brussels. Clearly, the European Union has no problem with setting up a risk-based system that would lower the cost of certification.

On the issue of certification, a document from the IOFGA's annual general meeting asks questions regarding the association's lobby group or certification body. The answer to these questions was that IOFGA is a certification body. However, it had extended its scope to include promotion for members. It is contracted to the Department as a certification body, not as a promotion group. Therefore, it should be required to do what it is contracted for. If we look at the document, we can see the various people involved. There is a Jim Carew, who is-----