Mr. Enda Monaghan:

We were working it out there. I think we were saying it is another 28% on the smaller farmer. The certification cost is not 28%, however; it is actually over 30%. It is 32% or 33%. We wanted to front-load the small lad to enable him to pay the certification costs. If a 20-ha farmer, who could get €170 under the organic scheme for each of his 20 ha, wants to join GLAS, he cannot get the €315. He can get a payment for stone walls and hedges, etc., but he cannot get the €315 unless he drops 10 ha out of the organic payment. He would still have to farm it organically. In my own case, I have 28 ha. I was delighted that the increase under the organic scheme was €1,800, but I had to drop 10 ha. This meant I had to drop €1,700 from my organic payment to maximise the GLAS payment. I am kind of in the middle. We have some lads with larger numbers of hectares. One of our lads who cannot be here today would have 55 ha or 60 ha. He could get the full organic payment of €170 per hectare for the 60 hectares. He does not need to go for the €315. He has enough stone walls, hedges and the other things one can do to get the full GLAS payment. He is able to get his full organic payment and his full GLAS payment. He is paying €3,000 or €3,600, whereas the small lad is paying €2,000 or €2,400 and therefore cannot-----