Mr. Andrew Kelly:

I think it was early on in the process, probably around 2010 or 2011. After the organisation was established, the pensions scheme was established in 1963. There was a pension fund and every three years under the Pensions Act an actuary made a valuation to see what contributions were required to fund the benefits payable under the scheme at the time. The trustees or the board of trustees, three of whom are appointed by the employer and three by the staff, operate the scheme on behalf of members and it was deemed that there would be a private pensions scheme. The issue then arose, as there was a deficit in the scheme. We were in discussions with staff at the time - in 2009 - to make increased contributions to secure their benefits under the scheme. We were actually involved in conciliation on the day we found out that this scheme did apply. The conciliation process broke down and they were not willing to pay any more if there was to be a pension-related deduction also. They were not going to have a PRD of 6% or 7% and pay a further 6% or 7% to secure their benefits.