Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 30 September 2015

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions

Office of the Ombudsman Reports: Mr. Peter Tyndall

4:00 pm

Mr. Peter Tyndall:

The suggestion is a good one. We follow up on issues but not in the very systematic way the Chairman is suggesting. We will incorporate the suggestion into future annual reports so it will be very clear if there are any outstanding issues. The Chairman is well aware of the issues that arise. Mention was made of the motorised transport grant, the mobility grant and issues concerning jurisdiction.

In addition, the Lost at Sea report continues today and it is the only report of the Ombudsman's offices in 30 years that looks like having no beneficial outcome. We will make sure that we systematically reflect those issues in future reports.

The issue of legal privilege vexes my office in the same way it does the Ombudsman for Children. It is very frustrating when a Department says, "I have legal advice that says that you are wrong but you can't say it". That seems an entirely inappropriate way to deal with matters. The committee will be aware that the legislation in respect of the Northern Ireland public services ombudsperson, NIPSO, is currently working its way through. That explicitly says that the ombudsperson is entitled to access to documents, even those protected by privilege. There is no bar to legislating on this issue. Our legal advice is that the current legislation might allow us to go to the Circuit Court and ask for an order to have that revealed to us. It has not been tested. We do not know what the outcome would be.

Fundamentally, the committee has to understand that we see a lot of information that is confidential in the course of our work. We talked about issues around child care, for instance. We see a lot of files that are highly confidential and we need to see them in order to form a judgment. That does not mean that we immediately put that into the public domain. If something were covered by legal privilege, there is no reason we could not see it, use it to help us form a conclusion and then not formally publish it within the context of the report.

I have always felt it was a weak tactic. If one has an argument that says one is right, why would one not reveal that argument? I am with the Ombudsman for Children on this, if the committee is able to do anything, but I suggest that if committee members were looking for advice, their colleagues in Northern Ireland would be able to provide them with some background to their thinking and the solution they found. I believe the committee for the First Minister and Deputy First Minister was responsible for drafting the legislation. It is the same issue as far as I can see.

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