Mr. Gary McGann:

I can't recollect whether it was actually done before I arrived or done just after I arrived, but the die was certainly cast. In the ... in the other aspect of your point, as you know, in terms of governance and the various committees and people who've opined on corporate governance, and there's been quite a number of them over the years now, there is a fundamental principle still of comply or explain. And the comply or explain principle applies to this day in terms of independence, non-independence, etc. The ... as I ... as it was explained to me, and as I understood it subsequently in terms of that appointment, there are a number of factors attaching to it. One, the man had enormous knowledge and experience of the bank and arguably was the most expert person in terms of the type of bank that Anglo was. Two, the appointment of the new CEO was from one step below the director who reports to the existing CEO, given that it was going to be an internal appointment. And there was consideration of external candidates and it was decided against, and there are obviously views on that.