Mr. Michael Walsh:

I can't answer that because, obviously, the credit committee was, you know, a function of the executive. What I can tell you is that any loan that came to the board always the question was asked, "Has it been approved by the credit committee?", and the answer was always "Yes". Now, it is clear from some of the internal audit reports - and they were the internal audit reports actually done by the society's internal auditor, you know, obviously Deloitte did some reviews as well, but the society's own internal auditor reviewed these things and actually considered them.

Where the non-executive directors, you know, met with, as part of the audit committee work, the internal auditor and identified these issues, clearly there were remedies actually put in place and clearly there were undertakings from management.