Mr. Michael Walsh:

I mean, let's be absolutely clear. Mr. Brophy joined, as you say, or was approved to join the board in, I think, probably October or November of 2005. He was an excellent appointment with great experience in Smurfit. In, whatever it was, August 2007 he was invited ... I gather he'd been introduced to Ballymore by Dr. Smurfit and he was invited to become ... I am not sure whether it was chief executive or COO of Ballymore. The board was fully conscious of its relationship with Ballymore and the potential conflicts of interest that that could give rise to.

So the board actually met without Mr. Brophy actually being present and discussed what actions had to be taken to ensure that, you know, that conflict of interest didn't emerge. The board resolved that, you know ... I'm sorry, I should say this was cleared with the regulator at the time but the board actually resolved that obviously he shouldn't be present for or participate in any lending decisions that related to Ballymore and, indeed, where there was potentially a competitive element, that he should not be party to anything. When I determined in December of 2007, some three months later, that the society needed to reverse directions, I got absolute and complete support from Mr. Brophy, despite the fact that that might not have been in the interests of Ballymore.