Mr. Michael Walsh:

Apologies. But ... you know, sorry, the initial concept was very much, kind of - and, as I say, it was pre-my time - "We will do it ourselves." That evolved into a situation where the society very quickly recognised that the expertise in terms of development was not within the society. You know, the society had expertise in terms of assessing and reviewing but it didn't have expertise in terms of doing the development itself so it actually formed partnerships, you know, different structures at different times. But the initial relationship was ... one of the, I think, people who have actually been involved here in terms of being a witness, which was, you know, Ballymore and Mr. Mulryan, and as, I think, Mr. Mulryan would have explained, you know, at no stage over whatever, kind of, the 25-28 years that he was involved with the society, did the society ever lose a penny; on the contrary, it actually made money. Now you'll see in that particular letter that you referred to, the one from whatever date it is in December of 2004, there is discussion in relation to, I think, joint ventures and, you know, the unwinding of those. And, you know, part of the problem was that, you know, that particular joint venture with Mr. Mulryan, which is blacked out obviously in your sheets, was actually causing distortions in the returns.