Mr. Mike Aynsley:

Yes, there were many. The ... at the ... at the board governance level ... I ... I think the board governance level was weak. One of the aspects that was brought to my attention early on was the fact that there were sometimes two board meetings with ... small number of board members meeting and deciding on things and then having a larger group meeting and ... and pushing things through. The committee structures I don't think worked as effectively as they could have. There were a small number of people in the organisation responsible for very large decisions.

The reporting frameworks I don't think were particularly detailed or complex and certainly not framed, in my view, in a way that properly informed the board of the risks and the activities that were being undertaken in the bank. Risk management, I think, seemed to be a process that the organisation went through just simply to say that they'd gone through a process to approve lending transactions and ... I sort of recall one of my first meetings with the chief risk officer at the time of my arrival. He was an incumbent chief risk officer who had been at the bank for many years and he'd been at the front end of the lending business. And he described it as a role that he was put in because he started to question some of the transactions that were being done and they sort of banished him to the risk area where in, in his words, he was classed as a second-class citizen. So, you know, I think the ... the governance and the risk management and controls would be the key ones ... but it also gets down to just the embedded culture at the front end of the business and the thoughts that ... thought processes and mindset of the people going out and doing transactions.

Another good example, and of course a ... a foreigner coming to town, particularly an Australian coming to down ... to town, the local Australian embassy here ... I am here and they invite me out there one night. So the first ... first night I went out there for a dinner, there's a whole group of people. I ... I don't know anyone there, and this fellow came up to me, who will remain unnamed, and he says, "I love Anglo." He said, "I'm glad you're here." An Aussie. "I just love Anglo." So I ... okay ... talk to me, and he said, "You know, I've been buying properties, investing in properties, for a long time". And he said, "I don't know how they found out about it but I was at an auction one morning and a fellow came up and he handed me an envelope, and it was an Anglo Irish Bank envelope, and I opened it up, and there was a cheque inside, which represented slightly more than what the deposit would be and it says ... a note attached saying, 'Just in case you need the deposit'.". So, you know, this is the mindset at the time. It was to go out there at all costs, find ways to go out there and grow the loan book and lend.