Mr. Alan Dukes:

And that had been clearly demonstrated in the previous life of Anglo. Now, we resisted those two proposals and we were regarded as being stubborn, obdurate, unresponsive in doing that, where we felt we were doing the job we were properly charged to do and that was, maximise return for the State and keep the risk down as far as possible. So, I mean, that, kind of ... current. Now, I have to say that if you look at the relationship framework ... the two versions - the first one we had in 2009 and the second one that was there in 2012 - if you parse and analyse through those, the relationship framework say this should be operated at arm's length from the Minister, except where the Minister decides to do it otherwise. And there was always a conflict there, so there was always going to be unease in that relationship. And, finally, I know you want to be brief, I have to say - and I say this in all sincerity - I watched the evidence given to this committee by the current second secretary of the Department of Finance and if she and other officials in the Department of Finance had been as forthcoming with us about their state of mind through those years as they were with this committee, we wouldn't have had half the difficulties we actually had.