Ms Ethna Tinney:

Okay. And I had noted over a number of years that what tended to happen was that when proposals were made - and we've discussed some of them - to change the strategy of what the society was doing, they were always presented, not by the chief executive officer, but by one of his senior managers. And I felt that this was not right. Because I felt that this ... if this was what the chief executive officer ... chief executive, CEO, we'll just say CEO ... if this was what he wanted, he should come forward and say so clearly. So, once again, when this suggestion was put by one of the senior managers at the board meeting ... and I always remember what that person said, "There's money to be made in sub-prime." And that's when I exploded. And I said, "And there's an awful lot of money to be lost [right] in sub-prime." And then I turned to the CEO and I said, "And if this goes up in flames, it's you who I am going to blame and not your senior manager who's proposed this."