Mr. John Gormley:

Well, the evidence is - and I've tried to be as clear with you as I can - that we had discussions with the Minister, and I said, I think, in my official statement, that these were not sit down conversations. I would have preferred if we had that, but we didn't. Minister Lenihan didn't have time, but we did discuss the options. He did say to me that he had been speaking to David McWilliams. I subsequently spoke to David McWilliams. He then sent me those particular e-mails. I think you may have put a question to Mr. McWilliams whether he discussed the issue with me. The fact is that-----