Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank Mr. Woods for his address and his colleagues for also attending. Regarding the dossier that we have already referenced and that the Minister received last year in respect of a number of hospitals, it was said at the time and since, most recently in the context of the "Prime Time" programme, that the allegations contained in the dossier were worse than those presented in the programme. The Garda bureau of fraud investigation is continuing to investigate, yet we have seen a public statement of denial of any knowledge of the above by the St. Vincent's Healthcare Group. While there are two hospitals identified as HSE hospitals, Mullingar and St. Columcille's among them, is it Mr. Woods's understanding that the St. Vincent's Private Hospital, part of the St. Vincent's Healthcare Group, was indeed another of that number of hospitals? Will he fill in the missing pieces in respect of the other entities involved?

How would Mr. Woods view it that the St. Vincent's hospital group only recently denied any knowledge of a Garda investigation that was allegedly set in train last September, yet here we are two months off its first anniversary? What is the extent of the Garda investigation and how could it possibly be that the management of such a facility would be absolutely unaware of it? How focused and how active is this investigation, to the best of Mr. Woods's knowledge?

We are told that there are two staff on paid leave at St. Vincent's and one, as Mr. Cullen has indicated, has resigned from the Beacon Hospital. Are there others at any of these other hospital sites, either before or since the programme, who are either on paid leave or have resigned consequent on questions arising in respect of procurement practices?

As I asked Mr. Cullen earlier regarding the named business entity, the supplier company, is the HSE encouraging the widest possible address of possible other cases of inappropriate relationships between suppliers and various hospital sites? What steps is the HSE taking regarding procurement in its widest application across all HSE sites or, indeed, HSE-funded sites, either in whole or in part? We know of internal investigations taking place at St. Vincent's and the Beacon Hospital, but what has the "Prime Time" programme incited the HSE to do across all of its hospital sites and all of the other health-related facilities that come under its charge either in full or in part?

In the opening remarks of Mr. Woods's statement to us this afternoon, he stated: "The amount of goods and services that the HSE procures on an annual basis is approximately €1.6 billion."

My sense is that these goods and services do not include drugs and health-related equipment, and I ask for clarification on this. I am aware the drugs bill is significantly greater. These procurement practices likely cannot be confined to the type of situation exposed in the "Prime Time" programme. Billions more are spent by the HSE on behalf of citizens in ensuring we have a health service to meet our needs. What has the HSE undertaken in light of the "Prime Time Investigates" programme to address the huge expenditure in procuring not only goods and services but also drugs and health-related equipment and whatever other expenditure? Quite clearly, there is room for abuse right across this public spend. As a committee member, I would like an assurance that this is being addressed as it should be.

I suggest to Mr. Cullen, who is still here, and to the HSE that while the focus of the "Prime Time" programme - and it almost directs the investigation towards them - was on those directly involved in procurement, I am mindful of what Mr. Cullen said in response to earlier questioning on the more likely recipients of a thank-you. Most of these - all of them, one would hope - were bona fide small gestures, such as a box of chocolates or whatever the case may be, but Mr. Cullen stated that the likely recipients were practitioners and clinicians. Is there a way of addressing this? The likelihood is that the procurement staff might very well be at the bottom of the buy-off pyramid. Others can influence procurement policy and practices. Is this also being taken on board?