Mr. Fergus Murphy:

I think that it was an indication that the mutual model in EBS was under significant pressure. I think it would have been too early, Senator, to say that it was not valid but, as I mentioned earlier on, it certainly was challenged.

And so, EBS were looking at options in terms of was there another way to preserve the mutual or mutual-like environment and code and heritage and, at the same time, get access to a bigger balance sheet and a more powerful engine, if I may choose that term, which would be coming in from the Rabobank, you know, global, big, Dutch bank which you know is in the top 20 banks in the world.