Mr. John Dunne:

I think they're separate issues, to be honest. I think the social partnership issue, as far as business was concerned, and just let me make the point: you keep using the term, Deputy, "big business" when you talk about IBEC. IBEC has a membership right across the board, from people employing two and three people to people employing thousands of people, from people in schools and universities and manufacturing and all sorts of things, so it's not a big business club. It represents the broad spectrum of business. And we would have to say that ... I can only speak up to the period of 2000 but up to that point, I have no doubt that the social partnership process in the round was beneficial to everybody in the country, including employees, people on social welfare benefits, because it raised all the boats around the place, maybe not at the same level but by and large, I've no doubt that for those ... for that period of time it was beneficial across the board.