Mr. Michael O'Flynn:

I think it has to be a lot more equity-based and that will ... certainly more public companies, more institutional investment. We don't have a tradition of institutional investment like you do in the UK. I mean, we can ... we've developed a lot of product in the UK. You've a variety of insurance and institutional investor that you don't have here in this country, so I agree with you, Senator. I think we need to look at setting up more structures. They don't have to be public, but they need to be quasi-public in terms of equity investment, because that's the key. But the equity people won't touch a cost-based model. It doesn't work. This cost-based model has serious flaws in it and I don't see any leadership to recover the industry except, "Leave it happen", and, if that happens, prices will go the wrong way again, Chairman, but the ordinary people won't be able to build houses, or buy houses, and you'll have more social housing requirement in time.