Mr. Bertie Ahern:

Well, if I could just take the first position - the GNP on the expenditure side - I always, Chairman, looked at what our spending to GNP was and GDP. I tended in my political life, as Minister for Finance and as Taoiseach, to look at GNP more so because of the repatriation of profits but, as you know, in the European Council or in ECOFIN, which I attended for many, many years, it was always GDP. We always had to make the adjustment but, either way, while our revenues were growing, I was always conscious that we should keep our percentage right and if I recall, even on the highest year 2006 or 2007, I think only Estonia had a lower expenditure than us so ... I'd like to go on with, maybe, what a lot of people have said to this committee and say, "Well, expenditure was out of control", but I have to say, Chairman, at the time, I did not see that view because only Estonia had a higher ... and we were way lower than everywhere else. Now, on the other chart, it was quite clear, Chairman, that the property markets - I'm sure it will come up after - but it was quite clear that the level of indebtedness and the lending to the property section was growing dangerously.