Mr. Bertie Ahern:

Well ... you know ... listen, when I was Minister of Finance because they were far tougher times and the debt-GDP ratio was 110%, I was cutting expenditure all of the time. But ... and I think I spent my life saying "No", as Minister of Finance and as Taoiseach as well because there are always ... unfortunately, and I suppose it's always the same worldwide, I don't think it's unique to Ireland, the demand-led schemes and the demands are always more than the available resources. So, you know, you're always trying to say "No" and even if we show on the chart today expenditure is going up, you can take it that if the ... if line Departments got their way, it would go up three times more. There's always the pressure for more spend-----