John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

That is right. Let us not bluff the people who are listening in to us. It has not changed. Mr. Owens has not ever referred to the past. Let us see what happened in the past. What was happening on the audit committees during the years when all of this was going on? Who were the members of the audit committee? Was there an accountant on the audit committee? Had it access to proper human resource management information?