Dr. Michael Somers:

No, it, by and large ... well, did it improve? It was, kind of, still there. You see, I got written into the legislation, because when I was secretary of the Department of Defence I discovered the military chiefs reported directly to the Minister, not through the Department, under the Defence Act of 1954, and I copied that in the NTMA Act, that the chief executive reported directly to the Minister. So I would insist on seeing the Minister myself without any civil servants present, and that annoyed them intensely. But, I mean, I couldn't get anything done otherwise.