Ms Cathy Herbert:

Well ... but I think that that became an issue simply when the markets ... when the markets closed to Irish banks. I mean, clearly then there was huge dependence on ELA but I don't think that was the case before. I don't know enough about it to say that that was the case before but I think it was when ... when the banks could no longer get money on the wholesale money markets that they had to rely on ELA. But, I mean, the idea that it was a gateway drug, I mean, it was essential. We couldn't possibly have taken on ... financed the banks by ourselves, the State.