Ms Cathy Herbert:

I think he might have been suspicious about that at times. I don't think he knew whether he was being misled or whether it was the ineptitude of the systems - their records that they didn't seem to know who had ... the extent of their exposure. This issue of cross-collateralisation, which I referred to in my statement. So it was difficult for him to know, I think, at times whether he was being misled or whether it was just ineptitude.