Ms Cathy Herbert:

So I think there's no doubt that there was a ... that Brian Lenihan had argued strongly in favour of nationalisation that night. That's not in dispute. But this idea that he was overruled ... I'm not sure, I'm not clear whether that was the Governor's own language or whether he was quoting the Minister.

It doesn't sound right to me, that he would say he was overruled because he had ... he knew how Government decisions were made. I mean, the business of government is that you ... people get together ... I know there wasn't formally a Government meeting that night but the discussions that would have taken place between himself and the Taoiseach were, in their nature, a Government decision. And he ... they would discuss matters and they would come to a position. And Brian Lenihan would have known that once that decision was made, whatever your ... you argue the toss, you make your case and whatever happens, once the decision's made, your job is to go out and defend that decision and execute that decision, and that's what he did. And, you know, there is no other way that Government can work, that is collective Cabinet responsibility.

So I wouldn't ... it sounds strange to me that he would have said he was overruled. I think I heard the evidence given by Dermot ... the chairman of ... Dermot Gleeson, and it sounds like something he would have said; the other didn't. Maybe the Governor, in fairness, wasn't saying he was overruled, that might have been his language. But I don't think that that's how he would-----