Mr. Brian Cowen:

Well, some of it would be about, first of all, getting them to understand, you know ... because the micro-detail of an economy is something you have to convey. I mean, these people would have a ... obviously, a very good desktop analysis of every member state country and would know a lot about it but we were sort of wanting to bring to their attention what our thinking was, what our commitment and determination to do this was, what we felt was how you'd look at this correction over a period of years and obviously you'd need to make a statement early on in the programme that show that you were committed to doing it and that you were going to get it done. So we were prepared to say that a 40% correction in the first year, which would involve not just expenditure cuts because people will recall tax rises as well. Now, one of the issues that had arisen was clearly that you had about ... I think, from memory, I think about 45% of people in work were not in the tax net.

There was only about ... there was about 14% in the higher tax rate. So we had built, in the good times a very progressive income tax system where those at the highest were being asked to pay progressively more. I think the top 6% paid 60% of total take ... tax take on the income tax. And we did that because we were ... we had been very ... you know, driving employment as a key national priority over those years and ensuring that people on lower wages - in some cases less than the industrial wage would - would be encouraged, you know, that they ... they would have a good return on the money that they were earning and it wouldn't be taken all back on tax. So, that was an issue that clearly had now to be fundamentally reassessed given where we were at in terms of the economic cycle and in terms of closing the gap ... that the Revenue would have to make a contribution. And Brian was of the view that, you know, everyone has to pay something and obviously the most ... the best or the highest paid pay the most. But everyone would have to ... we'd all have to be contributing at what ... at a time before when we were able to exempt people from that, that that was going to have to come back into play. So-----