Mr. Donal McNally:

Well, I don't know if they were as ... as altruistic as that, but I do remember one gentleman who was in the ... head of the Trustee Savings Bank in the UK relating that when he joined and somebody came in to take out money, they would do their best to persuade them to leave the money where it was; that, "You don't need this money really, you don't need a car, you have a bicycle, you can use that." Whereas, you know, 20 years later when he was in charge of the organisation, he was finding ways to get people to borrow money. So I think the emphasis changed from guardianship to-----