Mr. Donal McNally:

-----and had some peripheral ... I wasn't centrally involved in the PMPA and the ICI events in 1982 and '84, I think it was, or 1982 and 1985, so I knew the value of close supervision. I wouldn't have gone for this light touch regulation because, as in most of these cases, the State ends up having to pay the bill and the State should be extra vigilant. In terms of banking policy at the time, I was involved in the Central Bank Act, which was passed in 1989, which was to strengthen the powers of the bank to ... the Central Bank to supervise banks, to attach conditions to licences, to apply codes of conduct and other matters. But my recollection was of trying to take initiatives with the banks to get them to lend to ... especially to ... I think there was a young entrepreneur scheme which the Minister at the time, Minister Reynolds, persuaded the banks to lend ... or to provide €100 million for. I'm not quite sure how he did it but he managed to do it. And there wasn't the ... there wasn't the culture of ... I didn't detect a culture of profit maximisation; they might have wanted to grow the size of the banks. And I don't think there was the same culture of bonuses so, you know, the culture ... there was a cultural change in terms of seeking after profits and rewarding those who sold the most and contributed most of the profits.