Mr. Kevin Cardiff:

I ... what I remember, the situation got worse which undermined their book but you don't ... in a negotiation like that, you don't often get the ... it's like playing poker with someone and they don't necessarily turn over their cards at the end to let you know whether you've ... whether it was a bluff or not. So, in fact, this is the forum for turning over the cards, if you like. This is where we'll find out but ... but, no, and through the period we never ... never could be 100% sure.