Jillian van Turnhout (Independent) | Oireachtas source

Our guests are all extremely welcome. These hearings have been very helpful to the members of the committee. I wish to declare an interest in that I am chair of Early Childhood Ireland. However, my role in that regard is one of governance.

A point that has arisen at each of our hearings relates to staff and professional qualifications. Each of our guests touched on this point, but Ms Quinn, in particular, commented in more detail in respect of it. When the level of costs involved in providing child care are discussed in the media, it seems as if some people are pocketing big bucks. However, I do not know the location of those big bucks. Ms Quinn referred to the number of staff being on the brink. I have spoken to many child care providers who are on the brink and to others who have actually gone out of business. In the past year, all too many child care facilities have closed down. Ms Quinn also referred to the importance of non-contact hours. The committee has been repeatedly informed of the need for staff to sign on for 14 weeks. In what other profession would this be acceptable? No one stated at the beginning of the recession that in respect of primary and second school teachers the State could no longer afford to pay their wages during the summer months. However, it appears that it is acceptable to do this to professionals. What Ms Quinn stated about bringing continuing professional development, CPD, days into the mix would be quite a useful way to proceed. The situation here is similar to that which applies when one is playing the game Buckaroo. We are piling so many things on top each of each other and everyone is just waiting for the whole thing to fall. The committee is very conscious of that fact.

One of the other issues about which the committee is concerned is that relating to the family resource element being provided by child care professionals and for which they are not being given time. The committee may need to take this matter into consideration when compiling its report. These professionals play a vital role in the context of dealing with parents. They may only engage in brief conversations at the front door to the facility but this constitutes a huge family resource at community level at a time when parents need it.

The issue of inspections has arisen on several occasions, as has the fact that there are multiple layers involved and that these are almost suffocating. It is ridiculous that public health nurse positions at assistant director level are being advertised. There appears to be no problem spending money on very senior inspectors but public health nurses - whom I absolutely admire - are not qualified to inspect early child care settings. Who do our guests believe should be leading the inspections? Obviously, I am of the view that there is a particular model there for education but our guests' views on the matter might be different and I would welcome hearing them.

There is a need for us to remain conscious of the issue relating to childminders. Deputy Troy is correct: when the vetting legislation was introduced, a number of us tabled amendments in respect of vetting and Childminding Ireland supported our efforts in that regard. There is a reticence to become involved in the family home and in respect of the role of parents. There is a need to be conscious of the increasing use of au pairs. This is also a matter which must be acknowledged in the committee's report. The more we continue to push people one way or another, the more these issues will arise.

The committee must deal with a big issue and I am still trying to work out how I feel about it. For that reason, I very much welcome Ms Bradley's and Ms McCormilla's presentation on special and additional needs and how we deal with them. At the outset I was of the view that we should simply transfer what is done in primary schools to preschool level. I am becoming more informed, however, and I believe that the latter should absolutely not be the case. It is great that parents of children with such needs can have them in preschool for two days per week in the first year and three per week in the second. However, this does not work for providers because they must obviously have staff on the premises each day. I do not know how they are supposed to pay people's wages when they themselves are only paid on the basis of the number of days each child spends in their facilities. If a child stops attending for any reason - be it medical or whatever - the fee is taken back from the provider, which makes absolutely no sense. Deputy McLellan highlighted the transition to primary school and how this should be dealt with in the case of children with special needs. I support what was said in respect of ratios, particularly as this issue does not relate to a single geographical area but is, rather, national in nature. The question that arises in this regard relates to how we draw on specialised supports fairly and in a way that will increase the outcomes for the children involved. I am almost but not quite there in terms of identifying how we might proceed in this regard.

I welcome Ms McCormilla's distinction in terms of using the word "independent" as opposed to those of "private" or "community". I have not heard the matter described thus before. It is too easy to try to split the two sectors. The only difference I can see between them relates to rates. Otherwise, they are equally faced with different challenges. There can be great quality child care provisions in both sectors and also care that is appalling in quality.

It is obvious that we have all the answers but the difficulty is that the interdepartmental group is going to be obliged to make some critical choices. On the higher level choice as to whether it is about investment or tax credits, I am a proponent of investment. In terms of the choices to which I refer, we have discussed children with special and additional needs, improving the position regarding both the first and second year of provision, Síolta, Aistear and various different proposals. We can all agree that these are all things which need to be done. Will our guests indicate what they would do first? We must make choices and, in that context, what should be given priority and done first?