Mr. John Moran:

Well, first of all, I've no idea what three projects we are talking about and I think I'm ... referred to earlier of the separation of ... of a previously existing Department, right? Most of the cost-benefit analysis, I think, that should be in the system should be done by colleagues in power and they should be equally requiring the Department of Finance to do it. So, you know, with the kind of culture I am talking about, with all ... with respect, is to me the more important one is it's the kind of things of, you know ... I used to just sort of walk up to people's desk. The other senior managers would do that, they wouldn't ask them to be summoned. There was, I hope, a greater equality. I mean, it's actually funny around the table here. You know, I spent quite a lot of time convincing people to call me John and not Secretary General, right? But that was important to me, that we weren't using titles just for the sake of titles because somebody who calls you Secretary General all the time or even Mr. Moran probably treats you differently than somebody who calls you John. And they may not actually say things to you just quite as easily, you know.

And that's the kind of culture change I'm taking about ... that's the kind of culture change I was talking about earlier you know. It was mentioned, and I mean it's only testimony - I look like I actually watched all of Kevin's testimony this morning, but I ... I was kind of just picking up documents and stuff like that over in the thing - you know he made reference to the fact that civil servants expect to be kept waiting four hours for a meeting. That shouldn't be happening.