Mr. John Moran:

----the benefit ... the benefit ... the margin that the European lenders were getting was now a profit to those governments and it was designed to stop us from wanting to stay on the programme. We had no reason to want to stay on the programme. But more importantly, by giving us the benefit of their cost of funds, at the rate at which Europe could borrow them, it meant that our ability to succeed increased significantly because for each year that we were on the programme debt, we now could find ourselves in a ... in an environment where our debt sustainability was better. And that was why ... and the length of it and everything else ... that was why the interest rate reductions and the maturity extensions were all part of that negotiation.