Mr. Kevin Cardiff:

I thought they were shot. Not in solvency terms but in terms of their future business.

If you think about it, they had a property-based business at a time when property seemed to be slumping. So who are they going to lend to? What was their business going to be in two years' time? What was their profit flow going to be? It seemed to me, and I was taking advice from Merrill Lynch and from NTMA, so it seemed to us-----