Mr. Kevin Cardiff:

Well, I've tried to describe that as honestly as I can in my statement. They had a meeting that I wasn't in. So I don't know what, what, what happened. I can only tell you what the Minister said, and he didn't put it in the form of overruling. For most of the things that I've done in my statement, I've tried to avoid recounting what the Minister said about what happened, because, you know, it becomes hearsay. Unfortunately, with his passing that's the only information I can give you. It would be unfair of me to say more. But he never used to me the word "overruled."