Mr. Kevin Cardiff:

Okay. There was, I think, a meeting in April or May, about options in general, which the guarantee would have been discussed, but was never suggested that it would be ... it would be something ... that guarantees in general were discussed. In September, according to ... I had a notebook that I was using as my sort of jotter, and I've had access to that since, so that notebook has a note of a discussion with Dr. Somers, sometime around 11 or 12 September 2008, in which I said on the phone to Dr. Somers-----