Mr. David Doyle:

There were concerns about Nationwide. Looking at it in retrospect, given everything that emerged for both those organisations, once you got past the point of the guarantee, the capitalisation and then the NAMA loan acquisition and write-offs, obviously they were seriously insolvent. Were they insolvent on that night? There were people who were saying that they were in major trouble. The ... what the regulator was saying they weren't insolvent, my understanding from what I saw elsewhere subsequent to some of those earlier meetings with Goldman Sachs, they weren't saying clearly that they weren't insolvent.

The PwC, when they went in and did the liquidity thing, said, "Yes, actually, INBS might have plenty of cash but it's all going to disappear." When they went in and did their Project Atlas work, the three different stress tests, my recollection is that that ... even that stage didn't show that their capital was wiped out, but it did show a lot of concern.