Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank Dóchas for its submission. Ms Gold talked about sustainable goals. Are they too broad? Do they need to be much more focused?

Interestingly, last week I was in New York at a meeting in the United Nations on these issues. Sometimes, it is more about promoting an ideology then targeting and dealing with the real issues. Interestingly, population growth often comes up. In Europe, one of the major weaknesses, particularly in Germany and other parts of Europe, is the demographic winter that is taking place, yet we seem to target countries which are above the population replacement rate of 2.1. If we look back at the history of the western world and economic growth, much of it came about following the baby boom which succeeded the Second World War where many of the economic drivers were because of those changing demographics in young populations. Do we need to rethink what we are about and leave the ideological players on the sideline rather than giving them centre stage in some of these areas?

The delegations’ point about debt was well made. Without a doubt, if one is aiding countries, as we are doing, and 14 cent in the euro of that, a significant proportion, is used to repay loans, it is like giving the aid to countries which do not need it. I know there are issues where if people are not repaid, there will not be funding in the future. There are issues there and we have a good example of that in Greece at the present.

On the finance side, I agree we need to have a target and reach it. Should we be moving towards sustainable economic measures? There is the old adage: “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.” I am not sure I see much of that in the development goals. I might be missing it, but that message does not seem to resonate as strongly as I believe it should.

With regard to tax, a point that was not emphasised is good governance. Ireland has a good record of charitable donations and of various non-governmental organisations, NGOs, which are well supported by the public. Where that aid money is seen to be sequestered by individuals and where there is a level of corruption which is fairly obvious, it affects people’s willingness to contribute. What needs to be done in that area? Should it be a more significant part of the millennium development goals, MDGs? I know it is difficult to interfere in the internal affairs of countries. However, on the other hand, if considerable numbers of people are being left behind, suffering discrimination and poverty, that becomes a breeding ground for conflict. They are all interrelated and need to be tackled in a more holistic way.

I probably would have a little difference with Mr. Sorley McCaughey on the tax avoidance issue. Various tax avoidance schemes have been used, not just in Ireland but elsewhere, to drive particular economic sectors and have been successful in that regard. If one does not create that wealth in the first instance, there is nothing to redistribute. A taxation system should be fair but often there is not sufficient emphasis on how the money is spent. We have seen it in this country. There is not a Department that is not wasting tens of millions of euro which could be avoided with better management and if we had proper effective monitoring and controls and accountability in our public system. Where people are contributing through taxation, money they earned themselves which is going to the State for public services, the corollary of that has to be that there is equal attention given to the efficiency of how that money is spent and ensure it is not squandered. When we look at Third World countries, I am sure the situation with regard to expenditure is probably even worse than it is here.