Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the open approach of the Minister at rhetorical level and the positive indications that he is willing to consider further amendments tabled by us, or himself, based on the discussions we have had.

I am just catching up with the debate. I came in a little late because I was in the Dáil. The point I really want to make is that while we can all make very positive noises about the need to do something about this matter, we return to drift again. That is the fear. We do not have the luxury of returning to drift.

There are a number of elements to be considered. When considering the next amendment, we will discuss the time allowed for the mitigation report and the procedures for reporting back. On the specific matter of targets, if we do not have them, there will be nothing to discipline us to prevent drift.

Even with the best will in the world it will drift. If we are to get into the type of discussions mentioned by Deputy Fergus O'Dowd where we have to get down to the detail, rather than drift along in the hope that something is happening but really nothing is happening, there has to be a much tighter disciplinary framework which forces us at local authority and sectoral levels in terms of the timetable and the numbers to be achieved to do that. Then all the rest will follow - engaging with school students, forcing us to think about it at local authority level, forcing people in particular sectors of the economy to look at the detail as to whether every new house is built with solar panels. Are we going to look at local community energy co-operatives which utilise a mix of different renewable energies where there is a real focus and say that people have got to deliver?

Let us have the discussion about wind and the different mix. I am sceptical about the industrial wind but let us have the discussion. Targets will force us to deliver; however, we do it, we have got to deliver. How many houses in one's area have been insulated in the past year? How many houses needing insulation across the country have been insulated? Without targets I do not see how this will happen, we will drift along with aspiration but little to tie us, or to say whether we have achieved anything. If there is not a target against which to match something, people can trot out numbers to say they achieved such and such in the past year. If there is not a target against which to test it, what does that really mean against what we have to achieve? The point about targets is that they force that discipline on us, from which the rest will follow. That is the argument. The rationale and the logic for it are simply irresistible if we are serious about delivering.