Mr. Patrick Neary:

At the, at the first meeting there was two sessions, right? With ... and the very first session that we weren't in there for a long time ... I'd say it was, if it was an hour would be the max that we were in first session. And that was kind of discussion the solvency and they were talking in general about what the options were that could be used and a variety of options that were available for use but no conclusion whatsoever was reached in the first session. Because when we came back in that the ... the situation seemed to have crystalised down to this choice. And we ... we had kind of thrashed this out-----