Mr. John Hurley:

Okay. My memory of the meeting was that the meeting was introduced by Mr. Gleeson who went through a sort of short presentation on the situation. Others came in and spoke and at a particular stage ... I think it was Mr. Sheehy or Mr. Gleeson spoke about the broad guarantee for four banks and gave a rough indication of what they would see as being included in that. Now, my interpretation of what was said was that it was very broad and included all of the categories that would have been discussed in the Department of Finance over the previous days and that, to my mind, would have included subordinated debt.