John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

When we look back on how the collapse happened - we all have a view on it and it is being worked out at another committee - there was a lack of information, a taking of things for granted, a bit of bullying here and there and pressing on by the banks. That culture of pushing the Department around was alive and well. We did not have enough strength from the taxpayers' and the Department's point of view to simply take them on and put a stop to what they were doing. There is still a lot of that culture in forcing any of the other banks to deal with the real issues in terms of mortgages, debt or support for businesses and so on. Until such time as we take the bull by the horns and deal with the issue, we will be dealing with this type of thing day in and day out. As part of the Department's restructuring - Mr. Moran mentioned this in his opening statement in terms of the quality and qualifications of the people involved and so on - it might be no harm if it got a few hard-nosed individuals from the private sector to attempt to deal with the banks because they are still out of control. They are almost back on their feet and as soon as that happens, God help the rest of us.

Mr. Moran gave the figures for KPMG hourly rates, which ranged from €95 to €295 an hour. Will he give us the numbers of people employed at these rates? Does the Department have ten people on €95 an hour or is it more at the upper end of the scale quoted? If Mr. Moran does not have the figures available, will he, please, make them available to us as soon as possible? How many hours have they clocked up to date? Surely the Department knows that figure. We clock in and out here every day. I am sure the Department gets KPMG staff to clock in and out on a regular basis and that it has someone keeping an eye on them. Can Mr. Moran give us a breakdown of the figures?