John Paul Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Okay. Finally, earlier, very early, much earlier in our inquiry, Professor William Black was here. He was an American ex-regulator and under questioning from me he made the following quote, he ... in relation to auditors:

The straightforward answer is not to allow the bankers to pick the auditors. There should instead be a panel of qualified auditors that are assigned to them, and we should track the performance of those auditors. It would be like relegation. If someone had a record of screwing up, they get yanked from the panel, assuming what they did was not criminal. If it was criminal, they are driven out of business, but if it was just inept, they get relegated.

Firstly, and to use his phrase, do you regard any of the audit practices of KPMG in relation to AIB as being "inept"? And that's his ... his word, not mine. And, secondly, would you care to comment on his view that banks shouldn't be choosing their own auditors, and that such a system of relegation would apply for auditors who are shown, maybe, to have not performed their duties correctly?