Mr. Michael Torpey:

I am aware over my many years in banking of a ... for gross misconduct, in other words gross dereliction of duty, I'm aware of quite a number of instances where people have lost their employment. As we'll be aware, one has a burden of proof in relation to the treatment of employees and treating them fairly and respectably, which is a very high burden of proof but, nonetheless, I have over my years encountered a significant number of instances where that proof was forthcoming, where people had stepped outside the rules to a level which warranted sanction extending to in the extreme case dismissal.