Jillian van Turnhout (Independent) | Oireachtas source

Last September we had a good engagement and it would be useful for committee members to receive an update on the progress made in reaching the milestone targets in the agreed priority areas. I am sure Mr. Jeyes has the information but committee members do not.

In preparing for the meeting I was trying to put the matter in context. I had asked the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs a question in February. From the reply, we could see the number of social workers was not necessarily going to go up, but we can see the increase in the number of referrals. While there is pressure on the agency, we do not necessarily see resources being provided. The figures I was given in February were to the end of November 2014 and are the latest ones I have available to me. They made me think of Donald Rumsfeld's "known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns." At the end of November 2014 we knew that 8,451 cases had not been allocated to social workers. Of the "known unknowns", we know that 2,844 cases were classified as high priority, children at immediate risk of harm, including being abandoned, beaten or sexually abused. In the case of Laois-Offaly we are talking about 1,200 files, the status of which is unclear. I am trying to understand the age range and types of case involved. Does Mr. Jeyes have anything to tell us about what we are looking at?

As regards the 822 unacknowledged Garda referrals, does that mean the Garda did not acknowledge them, or were they referred to the Garda which did not refer them back to the Child and Family Agency? Will Mr. Jeyes explain to me what is meant by the term "Garda referrals"?

Does Mr. Jeyes have any idea of the percentage of files that involve retrospective disclosure of abuse of adults? Members of the committee are obviously concerned about the issue, but I am trying to understand the figures. If the report will be available tomorrow, I wonder why we are meeting today without all of this information being available. I am searching in the dark not knowing exactly what the figures are. From the recent HIQA report, we know that the Child and Family Agency had difficulties in investigating retrospective adult referrals and that some are not being investigated. I have questions in that regard.

People have contacted me about how we can ensure that when children are referred, the pathways will be absolutely clear. One example concerned referrals to the CAMHS. This can only be done by a GP, which makes the pathway difficult. Headstrong and Jigsaw, for example, have a consultant psychiatrist among their staff, yet a GP must refer a child or young person to the CAMHS. By the time he or she gets to the CAMHS which I know does not come under the Child and Family Agency, although it should, the case may have been referred to other services. People have asked me what happens at 5.30 p.m. when one knows a child at risk needs help. What out-of-hours service is available?

My colleagues have mentioned resources for the constituency of Laois-Offaly, but are there children in other corners? Where are the dark places where the spotlight is not shining? Nobody wants to be in this position, but we want to know what the figures are. My difficulty is that I cannot grasp them. I am hearing the right words, but how will I know when we have achieved success in order that we can applaud Mr. Jeyes? How will I know when I need to ring the alarm bells, when we should all be shouting from the hilltops that children are at risk?